Julian: Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining the behind company lines podcast. Today, we have Chris Kline, CRO and co-founder of Bitcoin IRA. Bitcoin IRA is the world's first and largest cryptocurrency retirement platform where you invest in Bitcoin, Ethereum, like Bitcoin and more tax free. With your crypto IRA.

Chris, thank you so much for joining the show. I'm really excited to dive into your background. What crypto what Bitcoin IRA is, is doing now and how it's disrupting really a traditional industry that, that we've seen you know, in, in terms of the retirement and especially how that's kind of gone through its own volatility.

And, and now this new possibility is really exciting to me. But before we dive into all that, what were you doing before you started Bitcoin IRA?. 

Chris: Well, thanks for having me today, by the way. Julian, it's a pleasure to be here at the at the podcast that you guys put together. I've watched a few they're great.

Before Bitcoin IRA we were working in retirement plans. Self-directed IRAs, basically to really try to capture the potential of alternative investing and what clients and, and investors could do. That's a little different than what you [00:01:00] find at the traditional houses. The Fidelitys, the TD ADEs with the stocks, bonds mutual.

Really open up the gauntlet of private equity, real estate, et cetera. And in 2015, yeah, 2015, the challenge came across our desk to consider cryptocurrency for one of these platforms. And at the beginning we were just getting started, like most folks in crypto. Just learning how the process works and putting it all.

Julian: amazing. What was when you talk about traditional or, or, using kind of the, the traditional IRA to invest in different ways, you, you said private equity, real estate, what strategies were you using? Not only back then, but before you kind of adopted Bitcoin as, as a and, and, and other stable coins as ways of, of investing.

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. So we spent a lot of time in real estate, people would do commercial, residential, real. Unlike like a re that's like a ETF fund of real estate, but actually sure. Choosing properties or groups to invest in private equity was big. It's one of the ways that Peter teal got himself to what, like a 2 billion Roth was taking the shares he was [00:02:00] buying and the ones he really believed in, he put in his Roth because of that tax free setting precious metals were really popular in the 2008, 2009, the, the last recessionary period.

Yeah. And so it was just really looking at it from a perspective of how could we. Alternative in finance feel like traditional finance, because we, our premise is our mission is that we wanna help more Americans retire and part of what's happening beyond just there's a retirement crisis. Right?

There's a lot of people that aren't saving retirement. It's the last thing that we save for. But then once they are retiring or planning for retirement the options are limited in, in the alternative space, you know, and we wanted to really open up that door, but the only way you could do it as a business was you could, you had to make it feel like they were at fidelity, TD Ameritrade.

It couldn't be a cumbersome obstacle written kind of process. 

Julian: Yeah. Tell me about like, so, so Bitcoin came across your desk. What inspired you about the technology that was being built to kind of double down and, and build something that you know, hasn't really been built before when, when you first [00:03:00] started it, but now people are adopting it more and more.

What inspired you to go in that direction? 

Chris: Luck was a big driver so, so you imagine you build it and you go to market our first Bitcoin IRA account, the world's first one was in June of 2000. I think the client entered around $250 was the price of Bitcoin. And you imagine what happened within 18, 12, 18 months after that.

And we were in the right position. We had an amazing product but we were very manual because we were just getting started. We hadn't really, you don't dedicate a lot of time and resources to technology until, you know, you've got a product that's viable and it's gonna make a return. Yeah. Uh, So we had to endure a very manual process and we knew just from that experience, because it was a.

And crypto has been known to operate in waves, right? It's very volatile. There's big runs, there's big falls. And so we had to tool up a system that could fee feed that insatiable beast, a product that doesn't turn off 20 runs, 24, 7, 365, every holiday doesn't matter. And one that moves a lot in Saturday, Sundays, these types of things, clients want to have a [00:04:00] different kind of access than they would of a traditional stock, because that closes it 3:00 PM or 5:00 PM on.

Yeah. 

Julian: What, what was that manual process 

like? 

Chris: When, when, oh, it was, it was phone calls at the beginning. So it was, you know, yeah, absolutely. When a client would their funds would come in, they'd have a conversation to, to figure out exactly what allocation they wanted to do. And then we would do a self-directed kind of phone verification call where trades were being executed on behalf of the client.

There was no plugins at that point because we, it happened so fast. You know, we were like, oh wow, we got our 50th client. And then all of a sudden it was like, oh my goodness. We just got our 5,000 client. And the time period was like three months. Right. But once we finished that, a, a lot of groups in crypto, because it is so volatile.

You see groups that don't always last through. We've been through about three winners, but there's ones that were with us in the first winter that aren't here. So, what we did is we doubled down on once we knew we had something special, we said, okay, we need to double down on technology, compliance, regulation, all the things that are gonna come for this emerging technology and asset class.

And that's where we focused down on. We hired a great CTO, our chief [00:05:00] compliance officer can we actually brought her Maryanne bullion over from the F D I C at the time. So this is early on 2018. Today you hear a lot about traditional finance regulators, cetera crossing lines, but early on. A former regulator to come over and work in crypto was, it was interesting.

It was fun to. 

Julian: Yeah, no, I, I can imagine the, the amount of impact that they have right away, not only just within helping the technology move forward, but within getting people to trust kind of that core technology and that you were building at that time. What was the process like building such a new technology that was then, you know, you, you were going through phone calls as a manual process.

You're taking in clients, allocating resources into buying and purchasing Bitcoin. And then now you're building technology around that process. What were the questions you were asking your clients in terms of, you know, identifying ways to make this extremely usable. And, and before you answer, it's just, I hear so many stories about, you know, going through the, the pains of building a product that they think will fit their client or, or customer.

But alternatively then is, [00:06:00] is, is founders that will ask questions and that kind of guides the user journey. What was that experience like for you? And, and what was that 

Chris: journey? . We were really lucky that our first, our early founders or early adopters of the, of the product were all tech guys. I called them Ingen nerds.

So we had NASA scientists. We had IBM retirees. We had anybody from the Fang, all the groups. Right. And so we knew, wait a minute, these guys are way smarter than us. So let's listen to what they're looking for. What do they expect this to look like? Now? We also knew the per. This couldn't operate like a typical coin base.

This couldn't operate like a typical exchange it's retirements. So we have to keep a custody model in. We have to think about security first and foremost, security was really ha at the beginning and since has been the biggest prerequisite of our roadmap. And it always is changing. Security gets harder and harder as technology evolves you've got deep fakes now you've got, I just saw a piece today, an economist about the risk of your employees and just their, their personal behavior online in a remote condition.

These are all things you have to think about as you build out that instance. [00:07:00] So yeah, we. We that was, that was kind of an interesting leap into the next evolution of this business. And then we just wanted to keep driving forward. So as the crypto market continued to heat up, we made sure that we were the first to de define a mobile app for this.

Define secure processes for opening funding and trading accounts. All the, the pretenses that you need to have a successful platform for clients and the, our original clients to this day, I'm very close with a lot of 'em. One of 'em calls himself, number 11, cuz he was the 11th and he actually came to our holiday party last year.

So we, we had all the people from around the country cuz we're very remote come together. Our bank is digital trust. We have a vertically integrated, licensed trust. That's based out of Nevada in Las Vegas. So we did a holiday party there and they crashed him and his wife crashed our holiday party. It was pretty fun.

Julian: That's amazing. What was what was the timeline for getting that product up when you were 

Chris: first building it? The timeline let's see, when we brought in the CTO and we wanted to create at least the first time where you could do 24 7 trading, 365 through a. We started it in about [00:08:00] March of 20, 19, 20 18.

And our goal was to go live by Christmas. I remember that goal distinctively, cuz I wanted, because we had that's a big holiday and it was like on a Monday or Tuesday. And I was like, let's make sure that no matter what the crypto market's doing, our clients are able to do this by Christmas this year. And I remember sitting there and it's Christmas morning, I got an eight year old daughter now she was seven, four or five back.

And she's over there, you know, Santa Claus, all the gifts, all the fun stuff. And I'm like refreshing, refreshing, refreshing, just waiting to see somebody trade something. We built this amazing tool. Somebody use it. And then about like, mid-morning in LA, we got a couple of trades through and I was just, it was like my Christmas morning.

Right. It was like, okay, we created something. We weren't a hundred percent sure if they would use it. And they used it. And to this. It's really defined our industry. We've we've set the standard, you know, you have to have this tool, you have to have a mobile app, these things, if you want to serve clients in the crypto IRA.

Julian: Yeah. Yeah, no, that that's, I love the story behind it and, and it must have felt like Christmas back when, back when you were, you know, when you were a kid and you [00:09:00] kind of shared in that experience yeah. Talk about the security piece, cuz I was, I was lurking in and reading a lot about the Bitcoin IRA and there's this, there's this concept that you use to be super secure, which is called code storage.

Which for my, for my, for my audience describe some of the security around, you know, this platform and then in particular, if you can define cold storage and how that's helpful and useful yeah. Versus kind of traditional hot storage as they call it for other kind of software companies. Mm-hmm, that deal with security 

Chris: and data.

Yeah, absolutely. So we were dealing with the holy grail here, retirement accounts. The last thing you want is to have somebody invest, something in, it just gets lost and crypto was brand new. So the first thing we did was we got an exclusive partnership and still have it today with bit. BICO a lot of folks think of 'em as like the Goldman S Sachs or the Brinks of the industry.

So they've been designing multisignature configurations to fit a lot of custody needs over the years. It's all about keeping the, the, the wallet itself in ultra cold storage. And that's about putting layers of protection between it and adding. So [00:10:00] that it makes it more difficult, more layers and users and keys are needed in order to extract product from that wallet, kind of like you gotta go through the front door, Brinks facility, then you gotta go through cage by cage, by cage, by cage, before you get to the actual value.

Right? Same concept if you want a good parallel. And so what we knew was from the very beginning, this is paramount and it goes beyond just the security of the asset nowadays, the hardest challenges, the security of the client and the business risk mm-hmm . So the. Is your greatest risk, right? Because they can be SIM swapped.

They can be hacked on their email. They can be, I mean, so many things happen, right? And so you have to put layers of protection to protect your clients from themselves or bad actors that may compromise them. And we've seen a lot of that in the industry and just overall in technology, especially since COVID, it had a big spike online cyber crimes and things like that.

And then the last piece is the business risk. And we learned that this. Because there were troops like voyage or CELs, et cetera, that over leveraged themselves into high yield in instruments, [00:11:00] because that was how they were capturing accounts was, Hey, we pay you amazing interest on your crypto, but in order to feed that beast, they had to make riskier decisions with their treasury management.

And that in June of this year, that's where we saw big fall out Luna, which was a big S peg as a stable coin. And then you had groups that were basically becoming insolvent because they couldn't get their, they had defaults upstream in a very kind of tight knit industry. Yeah. And so this has impacted our entire industry crypto overall, and in the crypto IRA space, we have about maybe four or five major competitors and all of them, I think three out, four, four outta five have had a.

Event that has occurred, whether it's breaches by clients or a loss of the control of their website or their their servers because bad actors think, oh, if I can get in here, I could get app people's cryptocurrency. And that's happened for years on exchanges, right. That they can get there. And that's why we use cold storage configuration.

And so it's important. This why we lead with security is that it, we, we knew from the very beginning, it was what would make us different and help us grow. Because if you. [00:12:00] All these horror stories of people that were like, yes, I lost money doing this. The, the industry doesn't grow. We have a, it's almost a responsibility for us as an industry leader to, to put security.

Julian: Yeah. When, when you talk about the different security risks, is that from, I was talking to another founder and, and who runs a company where they build technology to combat against groups of people who are conducting just like big efforts with ransomware. Is it similar kind of like organizations?

Yeah. Yeah. So 

Chris: the whole organizations get target. And once they can compromise a piece and if they can find a way through a lot of times it's internal it's not fraud, but it's internal negligence in a lot of ways because there's a, a singular user singular point of entry or of, of a failure. And these are things that, you know, you to, to really grow, imagine being a startup.

And you're, you're not just starting up a company, you're starting up an. And the definition around it. I remember when we did the first Bitcoin IRA account, we went for, at some point we'd gone through regulators and all these steps, and we finally just went for the forgiveness instead of [00:13:00] permission because it had taken, we just say, okay, now we did it.

So now let's figure out how we can do this more and more. And of course, At the time, they might have been a little upset with us, but now having done what we've created I don't think anybody's too upset 

Julian: these days. Yeah. yeah. What's the, you know, if you were to like give us a succinct snapshot, why would we invest our IRA into Bitcoin versus their traditional methods?

What are the benefits? What are the implications of, you know, Bitcoin and other currencies, long term that should that we should be hopeful for in investing in this. . 

Chris: Yeah, that's a great question. We're actually sitting right in the midst of it. So I have been as a student of economics and international finance from CU Boulder over the years, I've always been a realist when it comes to currency.

So back before 1971, when president Nixon took us off the gold standard, you could convert your dollars. You'd go into a bank and give 'em $20. They give you a gold coin or vice versa. And there was a convertibility factor. And at, in 1970, [00:14:00] We went off of that standard known as the gold standard.

And we became what was Fiat money. And as Fiat money has grown over the years, it has expanded and expanded. And that's why if you think about when we went to the grocery store in 1985, when I was born, you could fill up a grocery cart for your family for a week for 20, 30 bucks. And now that's two or $300 because there's more money supply out there.

Long term. And history has proven this. It is not a sustainable function and our particular economy, not just the us, but the global economy. Has had a lot of strain since right around when I got outta college in 2008 where the housing recession, that was kind of a backstop that hit with the fed fed and the treasury of, of, of, of tarp and putting in a lot of money to help create what's called quantitative easing.

That started in oh eight it's 20, 22. We have never stopped doing those things. In fact, we've accelerated them ex extremely much. So for the last few. And that's why we are facing this difficult challenge of inflation. It didn't just come outta nowhere when like, oh my God, inflation's creeping up on us.

How did this guy get here? We created this beast [00:15:00] for ourselves. And in order to adjust to it, the weapon that the fed has is let me increase the rates. Let me increase the cost of capital so that can. Take some of these help bring some of these prices down and, and, and kind of stabilize this economy. The big question, mark, not just for the us, but for all central banks, is, is this going to be manageable long term?

And is this solution gonna work? A lot of folks want to diversify themselves from that reality. So in the past you've seen a lot of folks will run to gold and. Now those have some weaknesses to them, right? They're, it's tough to carry around. It's it's, it's, it's a bulky thing. You can't use it digitally.

It doesn't, it's not easy for commerce and day to day trade Bitcoin solves a lot of those and has a finite supply. There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin ever. In fact, as more and more are created, the rate of return for those that are creating, it is cut in half in our happening periods that we have the exact opposite of us dollars where.

If we create more of it, we get reelected. And so this is a, this is kind of [00:16:00] a macroeconomic element of your portfolio of saying, Hey, you know, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, critical part of a portfolio, but a modern one needs to think about some alternatives. Is it crypto? Some folks look at real estate, some folks look at other things.

It's making sure that you've got multiple pieces of the pie. I, regardless of what things, how things pan out, which none of us really know at. 

Julian: yeah. What, what's the challenge of, of dealing, you know, you talk about real estate, which is physical asset. So is, you know, minerals like gold and silver.

What's the challenge of dealing with a digital 

Chris: asset. The, the security of an unknown product is a big piece that we talked about. And then it's education of the client. It's so new. It's like when credit cards came out and everybody was like, I'm never gonna use those. I just got good old cash right here.

And now we're almost a cashless society. Right. We have Venmo and everything else in between. You can't get changed at the store cuz we don't make coins anymore. And so that trans imagine that transition just like internet and email, you know, there was people that boxed at it at the beginning. Education brings folks there.

But it's, there's a learning curve to this, and that's [00:17:00] kind of why we saw the pertinent need for a turnkey solution. For folks that wanted to get into this is just, Hey, it's as simple as going to fidelity, putting some funds in an account, buying some stocks, bonds, mutual funds, holding them there and having them as a part of your portfolio.

Same concept just let's use it with. . Yeah, 

Julian: what's the you know, what's the main user for Bitcoin IRA? Is it consumers in particular? Is it institutions? Is it both parties? Who are 

Chris: you? Who do you typically with heavily direct to retail, so heavily direct to the end consumer. And that's because the, the, some people call it evolution.

Some people call it revolution, but. Evolution of digital currencies is actually retail driven. It is the regular Joe that's saying, Hey, I want to add this to my portfolio. Institutions came a little later back at last year. Actually MicroStrategy just added another 7 million to their balance sheet, which is a well over a couple billion of crypto that they've held they're in the game now.

But yeah, our, most of our business is folks that have an old 401k that they had from a past. An IRA that they [00:18:00] wanted to diversify or they wanted to get started and just open up an account. You can, each year you can do a certain amount between about six to 7,000 to an IRA setting that works for you.

What are 

Julian: the currencies that you're currently 

Chris: working with? We have 65. We started with Bitcoin in 16. And then we did Ethereum in 2017 late 17, like August. We had the BCH fork. So the fork between Bitcoin cash and. That was an interesting experience. That was definitely a technology challenge of understanding.

Well, what is a fork? Nobody even knew what a fork was at the point in time. There, there were people that thought that one asset became useless and the other one became the winner. And what we've learned over now five years is they both still exist for different purpose. Now there's 65. Other top ones that are used light coin Cardo polka dot avalanche lot of great players out there in this space.

Our pretenses are that if we're gonna offer product, we wanna make sure we can keep it safe. So at the same security standards that we have all other assets and behind a $700 million insurance from Lloyds. And we wanna make sure that we can maintain liquidity. So that [00:19:00] OTCs and groups that are offering liquidity for these spaces have longevity to that so that you don't buy something that you're stuck in.

We had a challenge with ripple in 2000 and 20. Where it was with because of what's happening with the CC and investigation. We weren't us. Beholders weren't us residents weren't able to buy it anymore. Which meant they couldn't sell it anymore. So clients had to have, make a decision of a longer term hold or liquidate now and move forward.

So these are some of those things that come up that you can't put on the roadmap, right? You just, they just come. 

Julian: Yeah. You talk about the different usability of, of different currencies. What is exciting to you? What, what currencies if you, you know, if you can play favorites or if you're just more interested in what what are you excited about in terms of the usability of certain currencies for specific reasons in, in different industries, or is it the, the technology behind them?

What are you getting most excited about? As these currencies continue to grow, expand, and, and their technology becomes more sophist. . 

Chris: So obviously I'm a huge fan of Bitcoin for what it stands as a alternative currency beyond that. I, I don't have a favorite, but I'm most [00:20:00] impressed by Ethereum. We just completed arguably one of the most impressive tech updates ever in web three in, in, in these two layer components a group of people in a consensus driven setting, determined that Ethereum should shift from proof of work to proof of.

They discovered the technology and the integrations that would need to be done to make that possible orchestrated how that would be merged in thus the merge so that we could not have a disruption to the user capability of the Ethereum network. These are really impressive things. Imagine early on, if we just let, who a group of people figure out how the internet was gonna work.

Work. Well, maybe it might actually work better than it does today, but the, the, the, for them to do that in a decentralized setting is just, it's amazing. It really is the future of, of consist driven assets. So those excite me. I, I do also get just in general excited about coins that are aiming to solve something.

That's very clear, something that we can, we need to work on. So for example, Ethereum as a backbone to what could be [00:21:00] an internet 2.0 3.0, may give us back as users. Some of that privacy that we all keep talking about, you know that when we use online apps, the things, the terms and conditions and the things using smart contract technology, there may be a way for us to, as users empower our.

Preferences as opposed to an algorithm deciding what our preferences are. Yeah. And now I know that's pretty like mind shaking, but I think because of where people feel about privacy and online anonymity and all those things, that's where we may see this use case get really hyper accelerated.

Yeah, no, that 

Julian: I, I, I love where the direction of it is going. I was talking to a founder who was doing a, a a decentralized social media platform and just having that ownership behind the content that. Put out into the world is extremely valuable because you can feel you know, secure and safe.

And also, you know, there isn't an algorithm, it's a community driven you know, push towards certain types of content and incentives. And then another guy was talking to he was doing something around different partnerships on getting, [00:22:00] you know, certain types of documentation on smart contracts.

You know, where I'm pretty excited about, you know, I envision a world where you can have your where you can have your uh, like birth certificate, right. Available within a smart contract mm-hmm and you have that security and that privacy and that accessibility. And also, you know, we think about sustainability and waste and things like that, you know, these all kind of trickle down, so really excited about the direction that all these coins are going and all the technologies going.

What are some of the biggest risks that you know, Bitcoin IRA faces. 

Chris: I think as far as risk as a business, A general volatility of the marketplace. And we've, and this has kind of been seen via the waves that I talked about earlier that businesses will come and then they go. So for us, we're very healthy business.

We run it very effectively. We didn't kind of jump into the bandwagon of look at all this awesome, easy VC money last year, because there was so much flooding into the space. And we're fortunate for that because a lot of our counterparts that deal with that. The conversation with your investor changes a lot from the times where you're [00:23:00] making money hand over fist versus times where you have to be strategic and, and have smart growth.

So for us, our, our strategic growth, I think initiative is strong, but there's so many things you can't control. When you are a business that does sells widgets, widgets, or gadgets, imagine the price. Of your widget wedges or gadgets are changing every second, all seconds of all days of time. It's an experience, a a always ongoing.

And then also we, we are really well, well wedged in with our regulatory reputation. We've worked with a lot of groups over the years, but there's more of that coming and that's a good thing. So it's a, it's a risk for are the industry, because we're gonna have to adapt to the reality. I've always applauded regulation.

It's the guardrails that protects consumers. You do that. You're gonna get more consumers. You're gonna get more mainstream. But there's not a lot of clarity quite yet, on where it's coming from and what the rules will be. So we have to be say very nimble and agile as we prepare for that. Yeah. 

Julian: Yeah.

What makes your job hard? 

Chris: My job's difficult. You know, the, probably the biggest challenge that I'm finding [00:24:00] now. So we went remote in 20 and it was awesome because it had really, there were so many perks to it. So much savings on overhead in Los Angeles. Parking, et cetera. Parking bills would just get crazy around here for your staff.

And so that was amazing. But now I'm noticing that some of there's some there's a lot that can be said about sitting in a room with the three people and just knocking a project out, right. Versus some of the disconnect we get in this two dimensional space. And, and there's, there's been a lot of success in it, but I think that we still have a lot of growth is not just the employer, but the employee and how we maximize those.

Julian: Yeah. And backtracking to when you were talking about VC funding and, and you know, kind of the different strategies that you employed what strategies did you employ that kind of helped you not only grow through the win, the three winters that, that you you've gone through but also just combat the different effects from the macro market that, that you face.

What, what, what do you focus on in particular and how do you strategize? How do you structure for our other founders that are. 

Chris: yeah. You know, it's, it's, it will be the [00:25:00] times that test your intestinal and emotional fortitude the most. It's, it's, it's the hardest part of being an entrepreneur is the tough times.

You will, you do have to be strategic and make sure that your costs, you know, as much as you wanna hold on. Two employees because we have that emotional factor. I mean, I look at a lot of them. I've been with many of 'em for many years. So rough times you have to say goodbye to some folks and you gotta be really strategic about how you do that.

You also, it's a balance of having folks be just busy enough that they feel overwhelmed and then not having too much bandwidth and whatever department it is. And making sure, you know, probably the most expensive two expensive parts of any businesses, technology and marketing the cost to build out your technology.

So you have to really, really ma like honor, those hours treat 'em like gold or Bitcoin that they are something that that's limited and you need to make the most out of so those are little things that you do. And then it's really mentally it's about staying the course. And Bitcoin's probably been one of the toughest ones is I've had other businesses over the years where it was pretty obvious we were winning or.

This one, it's not as [00:26:00] obvious because this market is crazy. And it's a fun ride sometimes just to hold on. 

Julian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If everything goes well for, for, for you and for the company, what's the long term vision for Bitcoin IRA. 

Chris: continued strategic growth and adding strategic players. So this last month or August, we brought in Rick SinRad, he's a former he was the he creator or built out the digital assets department with fidelity.

And he was there for about 15 years and he just came over as our new COO. So really we've got an amazing executive team, but just really hyper focusing on. And then, you know preparing for the agility of what comes next. There's gonna be new technological innovations. There's gonna be new things we can do within our platform using web three, cetera.

And just being, always focusing on staying as a leader of the pack in the process. Yeah. 

Julian: That's incredible. And I'm excited to see and adopt the, the platform myself. I think, you know, right after this, I'll probably just download it and throw some money in, honestly, it's, it's it's in. The ability to diversify in such different ways.

And then [00:27:00] obviously learning about the security and how much attention you you pay into helping your, your user base feel secure in doing that is, is incredible. Bonus question. I like to ask all my guests for selfless research and also for, for my audience what books or people have influenced you the most?

Chris: I'm a huge fan. If I had a son, I had a daughter, but if I had a son, I was gonna name. Lincoln Kennedy Kline and the two presidents, Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy for some reason, just over the years. And they've got a lot of parallels between each other, even though they were hundreds of years apart the way that one kept a union together.

And another one brought it from time of the past, to a feeling of freshness for the future. Those two leaders, I think transcended the politics of their. And I think our country could really use somebody like that pretty soon. Because part of where we're getting lost as a, as a society is we're, we're just, we're just divided.

It's I don't think anybody would disagree with that. And those are the kind of people that bring groups of people together in business. Everybody's gonna have different opinions on how things should be done. [00:28:00] Marketing's gonna think differently than operations center. So I should really embody that spirit as we grow from, we never lose that startup mentality of, you know, what.

Let's not live in silos. Cohesion is really where conversion comes forward. So yeah, 

Julian: no incredible answers. I, I I, I, it's funny. I, I was reading a lot into president's over the weekend just the different experiences I share a birthday with George Washington. So that's always like my biggest my biggest fact, but yeah.

Leaders who transcend the, the current. Of, you know, the, the environment, the, the politics, the government, or even just their own community or communities in general beyond something for greater purposes is definitely exciting and inspirational. Last little bit for for my audience to help support where can we find Bitcoin IRA?

Where can we support you? The, the company, the vision give us your LinkedIns, your Twitters, your all, all handles and, and. 

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. So obviously any of the social you can search our biggest community and where we, where we really active is in LinkedIn. We like to put a face and connect with folks, and I think LinkedIn gives you [00:29:00] that more than Twitter and some of the others obviously you can go to Bitcoin, ira.com.

There you get a whole bunch of information. You can even sign up for a free account. You can also download from the mobile app, which is got a great star rating. It's a, I've got all the same features you can find. The one thing I think everybody's gonna love is unlike every other crypto space out there, we actually didn't lose the analog.

So while we have all this amazing technology, you can talk to a human about, well, how does the platform work? What makes it different? How does the security work? How does the process work? How can I move funds, add funds, etc. So when you sign up, you will notice that you're gonna hear from somebody that's there as your resource, along the way, very unique for the crypto space.

And we're really proud. 

Julian: Amazing. Well, Chris, thank you so much. I'm, I'm so excited on, you know, learning about not only the background, your experience on building a product that you were handling through phone calls, adopting technology, and now to see how it's moving a space forward and in, in a really cool direction and allowing a lot of individuals, the opportunity to retire and not be so constrained [00:30:00] from traditional kind of financial, you know, institutions, infrastructures, and, and you know, different things along that line.

So thank you so much. I'm excited to share this with my audience and I hope you enjoyed yourself on the. show 

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. That's been a pleasure today. Thanks so much for having me pal,

Julian: of course.